"Splinter!"
Ron Swart interviews Outsiders guitarist Ronnie Splinter. Originally appeared
on "Ugly Things" #16
The Outsiders were one of Holland's most popular groups between 1965 and
1969. With Dutch simplicity they managed to score seven Top 40 hits between
June 1966 and November 1967. The songwriting duo of Wally Tax and Ronnie
Splinter gave the band the basic ingredients for their success.
After two phone calls I found Ronald Splinter, who lives with his wife in
an apartment in the south of Amsterdam. The following interview took place
several years ago.
UT: Were the Outsiders your first band?
RS: Yes. I went to high school at that time and Wally Tax had a seat in front
of me. He found out that I played guitar and asked if I could teach him.
That's how we started playing together. But we wanted more, so we placed
an ad in the window in the Utrechtsestraat that said we were looking for
a drummer and a bass player. That's how we found Leendert Busch and Appie
Rammers. That's how things started. First we played in a club at the Nieuwendijk
called Las Vegas. We did that for about nine months. I was only 15 years-old
and we had to play Wednesday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights from eight
till three in the morning. We gained a lot of experience. We played songs
by the Stones, Kinks, some Beatles stuff, and our originals. We listened
to records a lot, we covered them and we got ideas for originals from them.
I was still in school but I soon quit because I didn't have time for it any
more. My whole life changed. We all had troubles with school. We'd go to
a bar on the Wetering Square, the Phono Bar -that's where all the weirdos
hung out. They played jazz there at night. It was a great time. That's where
the first dope users were.
UT: Did you guys use anything?
RS: Only marijuana and sometimes speed, no more - and beer, of course! Tom
Krabbendam was the one who drank the most. He was mostly drunk, but he couldn't
play and his amplifier was always very low, so it didn't matter.
UT: The Outsiders records are all original songs, but you started out
playing cover versions?
RS: Yes, a lot of covers at first but later on, after the first singles came
out, we played nothing but originals. Other bands played covers, but playing
your own songs was really something. People liked that. Tax and I wrote them;
he did the lyrics and I did the music. We worked really fast at that time
- half an hour was normal for one song. The lyrics were already made; he
had a whole stack of lyric sheets which he wrote at night. He'd come to me
and ask, "What can we do with this?" So I'd ask him, "What's it about?" Then
we'd try some things out, and that's how we got more and more songs.
UT: What kind of people came to your shows?
RS: Well, at the Las Vegas Club it was nothing but rockers with grease in
their hair, but that was in the early days. It slowly changed.
UT: That was 1965?
RS: Something like that, maybe even 1964. We became very popular. A lot of
tourists would also be there - Americans especially -they loved it.
UT: Did you have long hair at that time?
RS: It was very long, actually! (laughs) We'd always get yelled at, especially
by construction worke
RS: "Hey! Need money for a haircut?" (laughs) Now they have long hair themselves.
UT: So the audience of rockers heard a new sound in the Las Vegas Club.
Then what happened?
RS: Well, then everything changed. At first it was all concentrated in Amsterdam.
We had a big following. You could see the name "Outsiders" painted with big
letters on the walls. Also, other bands, later on. And when we played in
the small towns outside of Amsterdam a lot of those people would go there
too (He points at his wife and says, "Like her"). That's how it started
to get bigger and bigger. The reason for our success was that it was totally
original. The more original, the better. At the time we didn't realise how
quickly we became popular.
UT: What other bands did you play with?
RS: In the beginning there was the Op-Art label owned by Peter Acket. They
also had the Bintangs and Peter & the Blizzards, so we would tour with
these bands all over Holland. It was very successful. Some people liked the
Bintangs, some the Blizzards, and some liked us, y'know?
UT: You must have some wild stories you can tell us about your live shows.
RS: Let's see... It was always fun to play on New Year's Eve. They would
throw firecrackers onstage and Tax would put a lot of effort into stepping
on them so they wouldn't explode. In the little farmers' villages, the girls
would always dance and the guys would always fight and make fun of us. Then
they'd get in fights with out fans. We never ended up in fights but I remember
once we played in Gorkum (a town in the north of Holland) for thousands
of people in the town's square and the power went out. We escaped quickly
but the crowd attacked the stage and beat up our road manager. He still has
a little crack in his skull. Those things are terrible. I remember one time
we played in Scheveningen in a club called the Pampam. You couldn't get in
without a tie, except for band members, of course. The people there did not
understand us, especially when Tax started throwing his shoes through the
hall. Tom was too drunk to play and threw up on his way to the bathroom.
That was a funny gig. Wally's dad used to come to the shows a lot. We'd play
in Amsterdam North and he'd be in the back of the hall screaming, "Ronnie
Splinter!" See, I used to sing some songs too. So I came up to sing and he'd
climb up the stage and start to grab me by my clothes. Nobody knew what was
going on, but we rehearsed it. My shirt sleeves were already loose, so they
came off easily. Other kids would throw Tax's dad off stage. In the beginning
at the Las Vegas, he would always yell for songs, or he'd start "We want
the Outsiders," and then the whole place would yell after him.
UT: Tell us about your rhythm guitarist, Tom Krabbendam.
RS: Tom Krabbendam, basically our fifth man, was in the band because he had
very long hair and made a good show. He couldn't play guitar, so I had to
teach him how. He was with us for a while, but we always had problems with
him. He always wore the same sweater with a hole in it. We told him to wear
something different because people started to notice. He said that he had
10 of those sweaters with holes in 'em, and that he liked 'em like that,
and we shouldn't worry about it. (laughs) He was always drunk, so he couldn't
play at all sometimes. We always turned down his amp so you couldn't hear
him. He was always there at the Las Vegas, dancing. He could get the whole
place going and that's why we took him. He was very funny too, actually.
Leendert had to piss one day on the way home from a show. So we park the
VW van and he walks to the waterside and Tom pushed him in. We didn't think
that was so funny, so, with Buzz's clothes on the heater, we left Tom standing
there and we took off. But he was back in Amsterdam before us because he
got a quick ride. He was always very contrary. He wanted to carry his own
amplifier and we were not allowed to touch it.
UT: Tell me about the first two singles on Op-Art.
RS: I remember a funny thing about our first day in the studio. We took a
lot of parents and relatives with us. The technicians hated it 'cos they
recorded us in between a lot of other stuff and there were all these people
with us overcrowding the place.
UT: How many 45s were pressed?
RS: That I don't know. Not very many I think.
UT: They're hard to find.
RS: Well, you know, the Op-Art label was very small with only a few bands:
us, Bintangs and Peter & the Blizzards with those wigs.
UT: Did they play live with those wigs?
RS: Oh yes! But they only had a little bit of short hair underneath. We called
them hypocrites. (laughs)
UT: The Outsiders never needed an image, did they?
RS: No. We were just ourselves. We played in the same clothes that we wore
during the day. Later it changed when Tony Laroix arranged some things -
they all looked like the Sun King of France. You had to wear that stuff for
pictures sometimes.
UT: In 1966 the Outsiders became the most popular Dutch beat band. Were
you proud of that?
RS: No, not really. You could split the beat scene into bands from the Hague
and us from Amsterdam, and some bands from other parts of the country like
Cuby & the Blizzards from Drente. The bands for the Hague (like the
Golden Earrings) got a lot of airplay on the radio, and every now and
then you'd hear us.
UT: But after '66 they couldn't deny you any longer.
RS: That's true, and at that time we switched labels to Relax, owned by Willem
Duys (a Dutch TV personality with admirers aged 45 and up).
UT: How did that happen?
RS: Jan van Setten, our manager, arranged it. Relax was a label with nothing
but classical music, and they wanted to change that. They wanted a pop group,
and that happened to be us. So we went into the studio and there was Willem
Duys. He was just sitting there, checking us out, and he thought, What kind
of loud noise is that?! He didn't have a clue. He soon left because he couldn't
stand it any longer. However, it was a success, because our record sold well.
So they let us make another record, but we wanted to record that one in England,
with the best studio and the best producers and technicians. So we took a
van full of equipment on the boat to England and drove to Pye Studios in
London. There was a huge storm, but it was great fun and we got wasted.
UT: Ah, so you drank beer every now and then?
RS: Oh yes, but we had to - to keep us from getting seasick (laughs), and
it worked fine!
UT: Did you play outside of Holland?
RS: Yes. Belgium, Germany, and France. England was just for recording.
UT: Did you play with any big foreign bands?
RS: A real milestone was opening for the Rolling Stones in Holland. And we
played with the Moody Blues in Paris. We played with some more, but I can't
remember. You see, I've got some of these black holes in my memory. (laughter)
UT: How long was the tour to Paris?
RS: Oh, about six weeks to two months. We played in several clubs: The Moulin
Rouge, La Locomotive, a TV show, and some radio, and some other clubs.
UT: In 1967 Wally did some solo records.
RS: Yes.
UT: I take it the band didn't like that.
RS: No.
UT: On the Songbook LP, your manager John B (Jan van Setten) asked you
the same question and even at that time you didn't like it.
RS: Yeah, that's right. but we were not very outspoken about it. You see,
we wanted to stay good friends or the band could easily have fallen apart.
He did good with his solo project but it created friction with the Outsiders
because nobody in the band liked the idea.
UT: There is such a big difference between the music with the Outsiders
and without!
RS: Yes, completely different.
UT: There was some line-up changes in 1967. What happened?
RS: Well, there were some problems between Appie and Jan van Setten, so Appie
left the band. He was replaced by Frank Beek. He could also play guitar,
so we would switch off. He wrote some songs, too, so from that time on there
were also songs by Tax/Beek. Everybody wanted their names on the credits,
but Tax and me wrote most of the songs. Half a year later, it was all over.
UT: What about the two singles for Polydor? How did that happen?
RS: Well, at that time things were not going that well anymore. I was in
bed with a 40-degree (Centigrade) fever when they came to my house to pick
me up to go to the studio to record "I Don't Care" and "You Remind Me." They
lifted me out of the bed. It was awful, but I had to do it. We moved to another
label but I forget exactly why. I think we were just no longer happy with
Relax. They didn't do much for us and we figured that since Polydor was much
bigger they would give us more possibilities. Not good for us, though, was
the fact they had the Golden Earrings. They were their number one band. That
was the reason that it didn't work out, I think. They pressed only a few
of the 45s and the CQ album was released with a total of 400! We got
little or no airplay and hardly any promotion. So the records were impossible
to find from the day they came out.
UT: Did the CQ material take longer to record?
RS: No, not really. A couple of hours and it was on tape. They had an eight-track
machine, which was a luxury for that time; that's what we used. We didn't
have a producer; we did it ourselves. It took a week to record the album.
We had about 150 songs to choose from - nothing on paper, all out of our
heads. I can't read music, I just know which chord I play and what they're
called.
UT: It's typical for your music that, stretched out over three years and
three different labels, it never changed that much. I mean, there's a more
sophisticated production later on, but it's still the same Outsiders - no
horns or anything.
RS: No, no. We only did one song with horns and that was "Strange Things
Are Happening," and I thought that was terrible. They overdubbed the orchestra.
UT: Did you know that when you recorded it?
RS: That was rather strange. Jan van Setten had that idea. We didn't want
it, but he pushed it through anyway.
UT: How were the Paradiso and Fantasio Club?
RS: Oh, that was at the beginning of Flower Power. I wasn't so hip on that,
and I left the band at about the same time.
UT: Are there any unreleased Outsiders tapes anywhere?
RS: We made some demos once but I don't know what happened to them. We did
have tapes and tapes full of music at the time we rehearsed in this little
room - all kinds of songs, but we didn't like them much, so we threw them
all out! (laughs)
UT: What's your favourite Outsiders song?
RS: I like "Lying All The Time" and "Thinking About Today." They're simple
songs, and that's my style.
UT: They had a clip of "Lying All The Time" on TV. Did you watch it?
RS: Yes, I recorded it. The clip of "Thinking About Today" is with Wally's
handwriting. They should show those old clips more often. I also watched
a show with those bands playing their old songs nowadays. I find that very
disappointing. They're not spontaneous - no energy left.
UT: What do you think about a new generation playing songs by their idols,
the Outsiders and Q65?
RS: That's good.
UT: Do you think it's strange?
RS: No, not really. You know, we always said that we were ahead of our
time.
"People always made fun of Tax's flowered pants" - Ronald Splinter